How to Lead Generatively

Julia: 00:00:01

Welcome to Generative Leaders.

Julia: 00:00:04

If you want to know how to be a generative leader, what it is, what it isn't, and where it comes from, this episode is for you.

Sandra: 00:00:19

The whole notion of generative leadership just struck me so deeply.

Sandra: 00:00:27

Now, leadership in general is, is a beautiful thing.

Sandra: 00:00:30

I mean, you and I know we, we know a lot of leaders.

Sandra: 00:00:32

That capacity to step up and get to the front of the line and take people on a journey, that's a, it's a tremendous skill and it's a skill that the world needs.

Sandra: 00:00:45

And there are all kinds of leaders.

Sandra: 00:00:48

And all kinds of leadership is very, very valuable.

Sandra: 00:00:51

I don't wanna ever dismiss any of it.

Sandra: 00:00:55

I mean, there are those leaders who have a good idea and they, they see it with such clarity that they just are able to take people along with them.

Sandra: 00:01:06

There are those leaders who are super organized and, they just can get people to move at the right time at in the right place.

Sandra: 00:01:18

There are leaders who are so motivational, you know, they just are a masters at getting people to get excited about what they're doing.

Sandra: 00:01:29

I remember I had this, worked with a United States defense contractor for a number of years, and there was a leader of that company and he, he was ex-military and, and you could tell he, but he got the, I swear he could get those employees to do just about anything for him.

Sandra: 00:01:50

So that kind of thought, those leaders, I mean, that's a very valuable skill.

Sandra: 00:01:55

But then there's this category of generative leadership.

Sandra: 00:02:01

And to me it's a special, it, it's interesting, it's an ordinary but special category.

Sandra: 00:02:08

Ordinary in the sense that it's a capacity that lives within all of us.

Sandra: 00:02:14

But special in the sense that when you can generate something inside another human being to get them to be who they really are, to get them to be their potential, that is a special thing.

Sandra: 00:02:33

And to me, that's what generative leaders do.

Sandra: 00:02:36

They bring out what's true.

Sandra: 00:02:40

In us and what's what's true in humanity.

Sandra: 00:02:44

They see something they may not even know they see it, but they see something that then gets translated to that per another person who, who then sees it in themselves and can create incredible change.

Sandra: 00:03:01

So I got very excited about that, uh, Whole idea.

Sandra: 00:03:05

And what if we could highlight this capacity and bring it to the forefront in the world and encourage it?

Sandra: 00:03:16

We could bring about change much faster pace than, that is happening right now.

Julia: 00:03:22

This whole project of the podcast came out of.

Julia: 00:03:26

The conversations that you and I have with these amazing leaders that have seen this universal capacity that operates within them and in everybody they work with, and having that realization that that's their job, to help everybody that they work with to see and live their own potential.

Julia: 00:03:52

And so it really wasn't me, it just looked really obvious that that's the group of people that I was gonna be having conversations with and that we would be talking about.

Julia: 00:04:05

And there's this category of, of leaders now that they have the idea that they need to make significant and substantive change in the world in order for it to exist for humans on an ongoing basis.

Julia: 00:04:26

And what I saw Sandy and, and why I'm so grateful for us to have this conversation is that a lot of those leaders have had that realization, but they don't see the foundation that they need to build everything from it.

Julia: 00:04:43

In order for what they've realized to be true in everybody ar around them and for them to build the vision that they see.

Sandra: 00:04:52

Right.

Sandra: 00:04:53

So then it becomes a, it's such a difficult job, um, because you, you, you, you're always creating from scratch, instead of realizing that we already are what we're looking for, and we don't have to recreate it.

Sandra: 00:05:09

We just have to generate it out of people.

Sandra: 00:05:12

So yeah.

Sandra: 00:05:13

So leaders burn out, they get discouraged, they get angry, you know, and frustrated and, uh, or, or cut corners.

Sandra: 00:05:24

And so, so yeah, when, when you don't have that fundamental understanding of what the human mind has to offer, it's a, a very, very tough road to walk.

Julia: 00:05:35

And Sandy, you, I mean, you've worked with thousands of leaders, if not hundreds of thousands of leaders.

Julia: 00:05:41

you know, over the, the course of your career and, and obviously now you are officially retired from, from that work, although unofficially, I know that you are still, you know, helping, helping people out.

Julia: 00:05:55

But what, what have you seen about that foundational understanding and leadership and, and how would you.

Julia: 00:06:04

How would you talk to a leader about, about that journey?

Sandra: 00:06:08

You know, I was a child of the sixties and, and the seventies, so it was a tumultuous time in the United States, particularly where I was raised.

Sandra: 00:06:18

And I would say I kind of grew up with a, a chip on my shoulder.

Sandra: 00:06:23

And I grew up in a household with parents that were first generation Americans.

Sandra: 00:06:28

Very, very hardworking people who kind of believed that you really worked hard and then your reward was in heaven.

Sandra: 00:06:37

So, so there was, we didn't have a lot of fun in our house.

Sandra: 00:06:41

so I was just kinda, furious and, and angry a lot of the time, and I fit perfectly into the women's movement, which was beginning in the seventies, and oh, I just jumped in with both feet.

Sandra: 00:06:56

And so I was mad at half the human race for, uh, most of my early years.

Sandra: 00:07:02

And I decided I, I wanted to help somehow, and I, I.

Sandra: 00:07:06

Became a, um, mental health counselor.

Sandra: 00:07:09

I studied psychology, well, I didn't study psychology in, in university because I, I couldn't stand it.

Sandra: 00:07:14

I, I went to my first psychology class and I went, oh, this is not gonna help me help people.

Sandra: 00:07:20

Um, and so I, I ended up majoring in sociology, but I was able to get licensed as a mental health counselor, and I, I worked in the field for five years.

Sandra: 00:07:30

And I was completely disillusioned.

Sandra: 00:07:34

I had such good intentions to help people.

Sandra: 00:07:37

I really wanted to help people, even though I was an unhappy human being.

Sandra: 00:07:45

Then I had this, I, I don't know, I, I was lucky I got, uh, I ended up.

Sandra: 00:07:51

Having an opportunity to go on this program called Outward Bound, which I don't know how many of your listeners ever heard of it.

Sandra: 00:07:59

It's actually started in the UK.

Sandra: 00:08:02

And it's a program that takes people out into the wilderness and essentially leaves them to fend for themselves.

Sandra: 00:08:10

You know, you had to kind of really learn how to survive in the wilderness.

Sandra: 00:08:17

I'm in my early twenties and I really got hit.

Sandra: 00:08:19

And what I, what I realized in that program was that, oh my God, I'm stronger than I thought I was.

Sandra: 00:08:27

And I began to see, I got a glimmer of this, this notion that my thinking could really keep me down.

Sandra: 00:08:37

Just a little notion of it, that my thinking was limiting me.

Sandra: 00:08:42

And so I got out of that program and I thought, this is it.

Sandra: 00:08:46

Forget this human.

Sandra: 00:08:48

Forget this mental health counseling business.

Sandra: 00:08:50

I'm gonna go become an Outward bound instructor because this is what really helps people.

Sandra: 00:08:55

But I couldn't afford the tuition.

Sandra: 00:08:57

You have to go to this long training program because you have to learn.

Sandra: 00:09:01

All kinds of skills, mountaineering and backpacking skills and first aid and all kinds of things.

Sandra: 00:09:08

That's a nine was a, I don't know about now, but it was a nine month program and it was very expensive.

Sandra: 00:09:13

So I had to stay in the field and save all my money.

Sandra: 00:09:16

And I got hired to work on this grant.

Sandra: 00:09:19

working with adolescents.

Sandra: 00:09:22

Adolescents who had either been thrown out of their house or removed from their home.

Sandra: 00:09:27

Or had run away from home doing family counseling.

Sandra: 00:09:31

And it was awful.

Sandra: 00:09:32

I mean, these were families, very dysfunctional families.

Sandra: 00:09:36

but I was gonna grin and bear it cuz I just was gonna save my money and go to Outward Bound training.

Sandra: 00:09:43

Again, luckily for me, at the same time I was hired, another woman got hired.

Sandra: 00:09:49

And when I met her, what struck me was how happy she was.

Sandra: 00:09:54

Because pretty much everybody in the field that I had met up until then was just as unhappy as me, just as dysfunctional as me, but she wasn't.

Sandra: 00:10:07

She was cheery, positive, warm.

Sandra: 00:10:13

And I started to notice that her families, cause she was doing sa, exact same work as I was the same dysfunctional families.

Sandra: 00:10:23

Her families were coming out of her office with smiles on their face, sometimes with their arms around each other and my family, that was not happening.

Sandra: 00:10:38

The kid would bolt out of the room, or the fa, the mother would be yelling.

Sandra: 00:10:42

And so I took her to, for coffee.

Sandra: 00:10:45

Her name was Rita, rita Shuford, still my dearest friend.

Sandra: 00:10:49

And I said, what are you doing in there?

Sandra: 00:10:52

What's the deal?

Sandra: 00:10:53

And she said, oh, well, I don't talk to my families about their problems.

Sandra: 00:10:59

Oh, really?

Sandra: 00:11:00

What about their patterns?

Sandra: 00:11:01

What about their pathology?

Sandra: 00:11:03

What about their family systems?

Sandra: 00:11:06

Oh, no, I don't talk about that.

Sandra: 00:11:08

Well, what do you talk about?

Sandra: 00:11:11

She says, well, I, I tell my families that there's a, a beautiful feeling that lives inside of them, and the only reason they're not experiencing it is because of their thinking.

Sandra: 00:11:21

And I'm like, yeah, so?

Sandra: 00:11:24

And she, she said, well, that's pretty much it.

Sandra: 00:11:28

And I said, that can't be it.

Sandra: 00:11:30

That's pretty much it.

Sandra: 00:11:31

So, so when you want, you're interested here, listen to this Now this is, this is 1980.

Sandra: 00:11:38

She gave me a cassette to listen to, and the cassette was a man named Sydney Banks.

Sandra: 00:11:43

Now, Sydney Banks, for those of you who are listening who don't know who he, who he was, he was a welder with a ninth grade education.

Sandra: 00:11:53

Born in Scotland, emigrated to Canada, was a pipe fitter in a factory, He was not a student of philosophy.

Sandra: 00:12:02

he wasn't a religious man, he wasn't a spiritual man, nothing.

Sandra: 00:12:05

He didn't read, he barely read except a couple of books on welding.

Sandra: 00:12:10

He had an epiphany and he ha, he realized something so deep and fundamental and true about humanity that he had to share it.

Sandra: 00:12:20

And if you can imagine, he's a welder but he starts talking to people and eventually people start coming to hear him speak.

Sandra: 00:12:30

And so I listened to this cassette and um, I could not understand a word he was saying.

Sandra: 00:12:36

I gave it back to her.

Sandra: 00:12:38

I said, yeah, well that was nice, but I don't get it.

Sandra: 00:12:41

But over the next couple months I kept having lunch with her cuz I couldn't/ when you see results, you just have to follow them.

Sandra: 00:12:49

So in many ways, Rita was a generative leader for me.

Sandra: 00:12:53

Because she saw something.

Sandra: 00:12:56

Not only did she see something For herself about what creates our experience of life, she saw something in me and could tell that I was searching.

Sandra: 00:13:08

And so I kept having coffee with her and she kept sharing little tidbits And I would listen and take in a little bit more.

Sandra: 00:13:16

And eventually I did hear Sydney Banks speak.

Sandra: 00:13:21

Now, must be honest with you.

Sandra: 00:13:22

I heard him speak very early, uh, like I met, I met Rita in late 1980, in very early 1981, I heard Sydney Banks speak.

Sandra: 00:13:32

I left.

Sandra: 00:13:33

I couldn't get it.

Sandra: 00:13:34

I just was totally.

Sandra: 00:13:36

I was just so insecure and I was, even though I was searching, I was so insecure.

Sandra: 00:13:41

Nine months later, I hear him again.

Sandra: 00:13:45

And he had his realization in 1976.

Sandra: 00:13:48

I heard him in 1981.

Sandra: 00:13:49

So by then many people had come to hear him.

Sandra: 00:13:53

Now he spoke for the whole weekend, two days, but I only heard one sentence.

Sandra: 00:13:58

But when I heard it, I knew I'd heard the truth.

Sandra: 00:14:02

Even though I did not know what it meant or what it was gonna do for me.

Sandra: 00:14:08

When you hear something so fundamental, it sets off a chain reaction within you that you can't stop.

Sandra: 00:14:17

Again, that's what generative leaders do.

Sandra: 00:14:20

They set off chain reactions.

Sandra: 00:14:24

And in many ways, Sydney Banks was a generative leader.

Sandra: 00:14:29

But here's simple, ordinary guy who was.

Sandra: 00:14:32

Speaking the truth and that truth was resonating in, you know, by now, hundreds of thousands, millions of people across the, across the globe, who either heard Sid or have heard recordings of him.

Sandra: 00:14:48

But there's me sitting there in the audience, and I heard this one sentence and the sentence was, You live in a world of thought.

Sandra: 00:15:01

And I just, I felt it right, go right through my body.

Sandra: 00:15:06

My whole body, like vibrated.

Sandra: 00:15:08

And I, I left that weekend and I kept saying it to myself.

Sandra: 00:15:13

You live in a world of thought, what does that mean?

Sandra: 00:15:16

And I remember asking a bunch of people afterwards, what does that mean?

Sandra: 00:15:22

And they, a lot of people gave me answers, but it didn't do anything for me.

Sandra: 00:15:27

I thought, okay, well I know it's the truth.

Sandra: 00:15:30

I'm just gonna have to wait and see.

Sandra: 00:15:33

it was many months later that I finally had my own moment where I saw for myself, I had one of those ordinary moments where I felt really bad.

Sandra: 00:15:45

I was really in a really nasty, bad mood, upset.

Sandra: 00:15:49

And then I had a moment, my thinking completely changed, but no one, none of my circumstances changed, but I went from feeling really, really bad to feeling great.

Sandra: 00:16:00

And then I went, oh my God.

Sandra: 00:16:02

That's what he's talking about.

Sandra: 00:16:04

That's it.

Sandra: 00:16:05

That's, I live in a world of thought, that's what he means.

Sandra: 00:16:08

It's thought, it's all thought.

Sandra: 00:16:11

And from that point on 40, now, 40 plus years later, I just keep learning that same, I keep having that insight over and over again, only at a deeper and deeper level.

Sandra: 00:16:24

And I share it as best I can with leaders that I, I I've worked with over the years.

Sandra: 00:16:29

And when they begin to see it for themselves, they begin to tap into a creative process that lives inside of us, that is so profound.

Sandra: 00:16:42

It's so big, it's so limitless.

Sandra: 00:16:45

It can literally change our life.

Sandra: 00:16:49

And that capacity is just right under our nose.

Sandra: 00:16:53

It doesn't matter your circumstances, it doesn't matter.

Sandra: 00:16:57

When you know that fundamentally, and then you add onto that intelligence, skill.

Sandra: 00:17:06

mathematical brilliance and, um, engineering and, you know, legal idea.

Sandra: 00:17:12

I mean, all, all the other intellectual knowledge that is available to us, we, we've got it made.

Sandra: 00:17:21

So every once, you know, I still get discouraged and I forget and I, think, you know, I'm not gonna be able to help this person, or I'm not gonna, you know, oh, Julia's gonna want me to be brilliant and I'm not gonna be brilliant.

Sandra: 00:17:32

And I mean, I have all that kind of thinking still to this day, it's just that I don't care.

Sandra: 00:17:37

I, I don't care that I have it because I know it's gonna come and go eventually.

Sandra: 00:17:44

And usually it's sooner than later.

Sandra: 00:17:46

Just because I don't give it too much of my, my time and energy.

Julia: 00:17:51

In this work that we do, when you talk to people about who are the best leaders that they've worked for, they always say they're the ones who gave them space, they trusted them, they believed in their own wisdom, and they were allowed to make things happen that made sense to them.

Julia: 00:18:10

And the change that we need to see in the world is only ever gonna come from that place.

Sandra: 00:18:16

That's right cuz you can't do it yourself.

Sandra: 00:18:19

One person's gonna, 10 people can't do it.

Sandra: 00:18:21

1,010 people can't do it.

Sandra: 00:18:23

It's gonna take all of us, with a, you know, critical mass of us.

Sandra: 00:18:27

but fortunately all of us have what it takes.

Julia: 00:18:30

Well, we're built for it.

Sandra: 00:18:31

We're built for it.

Julia: 00:18:32

You know, we are designed for that to happen.

Julia: 00:18:35

Other than when we are fighting with each other or ourselves.

Sandra: 00:18:40

Ourselves.

Sandra: 00:18:41

Yeah, when I was, reflecting on generative leaders, uh, that I have come across in my career, there's just so, I mean, there's so many of them because in, in essence, I think all of us have been generative leaders at points in our life, I don't think you can really help it.

Sandra: 00:18:55

I think parents step into it every once in a while, whether they, they know it or not realize it or not.

Sandra: 00:19:01

When I first, you know, learn this understanding, I gave up the Outward Bound, uh, idea and I, I wanted to learn more about how to teach what Sydney Banks was sharing to my clients.

Sandra: 00:19:12

And so they, I had to come to Miami, Florida was the only place I could come, cuz that was the only, school or there was, it was a clinic really of, uh, two psychologists who were helping other, other counselors, psychologists learn how to share this.

Sandra: 00:19:27

And there was one psychologist in this group practice who had, it's amazing, but he decided that he was going to help the absolute worst low income housing project in the city of Miami, Florida.

Sandra: 00:19:44

This was the, um, late eighties.

Sandra: 00:19:47

And this housing project was so bad that the United States Mail would not deliver mail into the project.

Sandra: 00:19:56

Now, there's, there's a famous, I don't know, those of you who are, listening from the us but you know, this always said that the mail always goes through rain or shine or.

Sandra: 00:20:06

You know, any, nothing stops the mail.

Sandra: 00:20:08

Well, it stopped the mail.

Sandra: 00:20:11

That's how bad this place was.

Sandra: 00:20:13

It had a very high crime rate.

Sandra: 00:20:16

The, um, truancy rate, was sky high.

Sandra: 00:20:19

Kids, any given day kids all over the projects.

Sandra: 00:20:22

They weren't going to school.

Sandra: 00:20:23

They had tried all kinds of things.

Sandra: 00:20:25

Nothing was happening.

Sandra: 00:20:27

So this psychologist, Roger, his name is Roger Mills, Dr.

Sandra: 00:20:30

Roger Mills, he's passed away, but he's this white, lily, white guy walking into this predominantly black low-income housing complex to share the principles, to share how the mind works.

Sandra: 00:20:43

So he starts knocking on doors of the, the women who lived in the projects was all mostly single women living in the projects.

Sandra: 00:20:51

They didn't wanna have anything to do with them, but eventually one of them realized he's not, he's not going away.

Sandra: 00:20:58

And so they let him in.

Sandra: 00:20:59

And there were four, four women who ended up listening to Roger.

Sandra: 00:21:05

And they got so touched, the four of them, that they decide that they're going to change this housing project, the four of them.

Sandra: 00:21:15

And they do it.

Sandra: 00:21:16

And it's, it's just an amazing story.

Sandra: 00:21:18

It was a, there's a book written about it, appeared on, on television, back in the late eighties.

Sandra: 00:21:23

And these women, eventually the four of them traveled all over the country doing presentations about their work.

Sandra: 00:21:29

But they were the most ordinary women.

Sandra: 00:21:32

None of them were educated.

Sandra: 00:21:34

None of 'em went to college.

Sandra: 00:21:35

They were all high school.

Sandra: 00:21:36

not even all graduated from high school, but they realized something deep.

Sandra: 00:21:43

About how their minds worked.

Sandra: 00:21:45

And they realized the creative power that sat inside them.

Sandra: 00:21:52

And they were able to translate it in a way to the residents and things just changed.

Sandra: 00:22:00

Not overnight, but the kids started going back to school, they essentially threw the drug dealers out and, and they just did it not with violence or any, they just essentially said, look, you're not welcome here and you're gonna have to move on.

Sandra: 00:22:16

We're becoming healthy in this community.

Sandra: 00:22:20

Healthy people don't do drugs.

Sandra: 00:22:22

And, you know, there are stories like that.

Sandra: 00:22:24

Just, it's not that we, we don't lack the way we don't lack the way we know how.

Sandra: 00:22:29

We know what works.

Sandra: 00:22:30

We honest to God know what works.

Sandra: 00:22:33

The change has to happen from the inside.

Sandra: 00:22:36

We just have to show people what lives within their minds.

Sandra: 00:22:41

We have to show people that they are a divine capacity to create.

Sandra: 00:22:48

And whatever they create, good, bad, or ugly will be their ..........experience until they create something else.

Sandra: 00:22:55

But this divine capacity to create, it never leaves us even when we think it leaves us.

Sandra: 00:23:02

It doesn't leave us.

Sandra: 00:23:03

We just think it does.

Sandra: 00:23:04

And, and that's the power of this creative capacity.

Sandra: 00:23:07

It can actually create the illusion that we can't get out of the mess we're in.

Sandra: 00:23:15

So the generative leaders see the folly of that.

Sandra: 00:23:20

They know, they know that is not true.

Sandra: 00:23:23

And so you, you have this human in front of you, who knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have what it takes to change your life.

Sandra: 00:23:35

And it's hard to deny that when it's sitting in front of your face, you know?

Sandra: 00:23:40

And so you end up waking it up inside of you.

Sandra: 00:23:43

And that you know you, and that you'll say, oh, that guy did it for me.

Sandra: 00:23:47

No, Generative leaders never take the credit.

Sandra: 00:23:50

They never take the credit cuz they know it's nothing to do with them.

Sandra: 00:23:54

They, they're just pointers.

Sandra: 00:23:57

you can tell because leaders who, who take credit, you know, they take the credit and you know, you know them, you see them all over the news.

Sandra: 00:24:04

they, and they think they're something special.

Sandra: 00:24:07

And they might be very, very bright, very, very creative.

Sandra: 00:24:12

very, very, very competent.

Sandra: 00:24:13

They might be all of those things.

Sandra: 00:24:16

But they're not the reason somebody does well or some, something succeeds.

Sandra: 00:24:22

It's, it has to do with each of us internally finding that spark, that realization that we have everything we need to succeed, to live the life we want.

Julia: 00:24:34

and Sandy, would you have any advice for anyone that's listening to how to start to orient or look for that spark within themselves and within their teams?

Sandra: 00:24:46

I, I would, if you haven't already, there are, um, resources available to, to, uh, learn about Sydney Banks' message.

Sandra: 00:24:56

So, um, that, that would be one.

Sandra: 00:24:59

I mean, if you're a business person, our book, invisible Power has, has a lot of great, uh, insights in it.

Sandra: 00:25:05

I, I, I do, I'm proud, I'm proud of that book.

Sandra: 00:25:08

Um, if you're not a business person, uh, there's a great book out, super, super short book, simple, it's called It is That Simple.

Sandra: 00:25:17

It's by Mavis Karn.

Sandra: 00:25:19

I'm recommending it to everybody.

Sandra: 00:25:21

But Sydney Banks' work is who I go to, to renew and refresh my understanding, and I listen and read his materials on a regular basis.

Sandra: 00:25:33

And you're looking for an insight, but the thing is, I wish I could say to people, look, this is what you do to have an insight.

Sandra: 00:25:41

You know, you spin around three times and you click your heels together.

Sandra: 00:25:44

I wish I could tell people, but you, all I can say is insight is possible.

Sandra: 00:25:51

You've had a million of them in your lifetime.

Sandra: 00:25:54

If There's anything that prevents insight from happening is thinking we already know the answer.

Sandra: 00:26:00

So when we're sitting there bummed out, or frightened or stressed, or in a hurry, or irritated, or bothered, That's a state of thinking you know, and you'll listen to your head, you'll, you'll hear yourself, you'll, you'll know whose fault it is, why it's happening.

Sandra: 00:26:18

You'll have a whole litany of reasons.

Sandra: 00:26:21

And you're, you could still have, trust me, inside is so powerful you could still have an insight in the midst of all that noise.

Sandra: 00:26:29

It is still possible.

Sandra: 00:26:31

But if you wanna up the odds, You have to not know.

Sandra: 00:26:35

You have to be willing to not know.

Sandra: 00:26:37

So you're, you're struggling, you're feeling bad, you're, under, feeling stressed or, or upset or bothered, whatever flavor it is.

Sandra: 00:26:45

Entertain that you don't know why.

Sandra: 00:26:48

And just let your mind graze.

Sandra: 00:26:51

Let your mind be free.

Sandra: 00:26:53

Let your mind sniff around.

Sandra: 00:26:56

It's gonna find something and chances are it'll find something new that'll help you.

Sandra: 00:27:02

May not be I was blind and now I see kind of insight.

Sandra: 00:27:06

It may be a tiny little piece.

Sandra: 00:27:08

Maybe a little bit of relief.

Sandra: 00:27:10

but it'll give you something.

Sandra: 00:27:12

And so when you become comfortable in confident in that capacity in you, that's all it takes.

Sandra: 00:27:21

Cause then life's gonna happen.

Sandra: 00:27:23

I mean, and sometimes life is hard.

Sandra: 00:27:25

Sometimes it's tough.

Sandra: 00:27:27

I mean, bad things happen.

Sandra: 00:27:29

But as long as you have had, I don't know, the muscle memory of knowing that insight is possible and can bring you, this divine power of thought can bring you something new.

Sandra: 00:27:43

As long as you know that's possible, you'll be fine.

Sandra: 00:27:46

And then when you're leading a team, you have to be willing to shut up long enough to allow people to find that too.

Sandra: 00:27:58

I, I'll never forget this one leader, uh, uh, I worked with, um, he, he came across this understanding at the end of his career, his 40 year career.

Sandra: 00:28:08

So he was already a very successful leader.

Sandra: 00:28:11

Nice, really good guy, very well respected leader.

Sandra: 00:28:14

But once he learned about how his mind work, he, he said he really changed.

Sandra: 00:28:19

And I sat in on his, one of his leadership, uh, teams, and what was surprising me about him is how quiet he was.

Sandra: 00:28:29

And he, he spoke towards the end of the meeting, but mostly he didn't say anything.

Sandra: 00:28:33

And so I asked him afterward and I said, what, Tom, how come you didn't speak up much?

Sandra: 00:28:39

He says, you know, Sandy, I realized that I come into those meetings and I have all the answers.

Sandra: 00:28:46

Said, I've been in this business a long time.

Sandra: 00:28:49

I have a lot of the answers, and they're good.

Sandra: 00:28:52

And I could tell my people, and that's what I did the first 30 years of my career.

Sandra: 00:28:56

I just told people the answer, and they followed me.

Sandra: 00:28:59

So when I, after I learned about how the mind works, I realized that, yeah, I've had good answers, but what if my people had better answers?

Sandra: 00:29:10

I'd never know.

Sandra: 00:29:11

And so now I just am quiet, and I wait.

Sandra: 00:29:16

And he said, I'm really, really patient because I wanna see if they have better answers.

Sandra: 00:29:22

And sometimes they do.

Sandra: 00:29:25

And when that happens, it's ,thrilling because I'm telling you, it would've never happened before.

Sandra: 00:29:30

And I talked to his leadership team and they said this, he said, like, working on his team has been the most growing experience of their entire career.

Sandra: 00:29:40

Those first few meetings were so awkward because they were all looking at him, waiting for him to tell them what to do, and then they realized he's not gonna tell us.

Sandra: 00:29:48

And so they.

Sandra: 00:29:50

He said, we just get so reflective, and there's such permission to say stupid things.

Sandra: 00:29:57

Nobody cares.

Sandra: 00:29:59

And every once in a while this idea comes out of nowhere and it's so exciting.

Sandra: 00:30:06

So, you mean you might not be in the position to let that happen all the time?

Sandra: 00:30:10

You know, you may be under time constraints or you may have a very limited, um, bandwidth that you can work within, i, I appreciate that.

Sandra: 00:30:17

But the more you're able to shut up, where you're able to listen and then listen some more, and then listen some more and be curious and ask questions, you'll find that your people will get smarter and smarter.

Sandra: 00:30:36

They'll get more and more, uh, creative, and they'll have more ideas that'll surprise you and surprise them.

Sandra: 00:30:44

if you get confidence in your own creative capacity.

Sandra: 00:30:48

it's not really that far to far of a leap to get confidence in everyone else's.

Sandra: 00:30:53

And I just throw, throw out, I mean, I don't have children, so this is easy for me to say.

Sandra: 00:30:58

And so I have very limited Krenn credibility here.

Sandra: 00:31:02

But this is true for parenting too.

Sandra: 00:31:05

You, you have to let your kids fail.

Sandra: 00:31:08

You have to let them discover that they have inside of them everything they need, because that's the best training you could possibly give them

Julia: 00:31:22

Obviously you are not working anymore, but if people did want to, um, get in touch and uh, no more, where would you point them to?

Sandra: 00:31:31

Well, um, I, I do a limited amount of coaching still.

Sandra: 00:31:35

Um, so, uh, they can still contact me through my Insight Principles, um, email, which is sk@insightprinciples.com.

Julia: 00:31:49

I had so much joy in that conversation with my good friend, Sandy Krot.

Julia: 00:31:55

Her excitement about understanding the nature of, generative leadership and being able to bring out the best in others is really what generative leadership is all about.

Julia: 00:32:09

So my top three takeaways from that conversation is, as a leader, how can we see the capacity for wisdom and awareness in others?

Julia: 00:32:22

How can we see their creative capacity to be brilliant?

Julia: 00:32:27

And how can we help them see that in themselves?

Julia: 00:32:32

My second takeaway was really listening to Sandy's story, and it's really stayed with me since the interview that that ability to really listen to wisdom within yourself and to know it and to see it is the difference that makes the difference.

Julia: 00:33:00

And then thirdly, there's lots of different leaders in the world.

Julia: 00:33:06

And there's lots of different types of leadership.

Julia: 00:33:09

The question is, is which one do you most thrive in?

Julia: 00:33:14

Which one do you see others most thriving in?

Julia: 00:33:17

And how can you cultivate that with the people around you?

Julia: 00:33:22

If you've heard something in this episode that resonates with you and you think someone else would benefit from listening from it, then you can share this episode at generativeleaders.co.