Episode 14
Accepting wisdom from beyond our own mind
Generative leadership involves being present, connected, and adaptable to emergent situations. It requires a willingness to let go of one's own ideas and preferences, and instead be guided by a deeper wisdom that arises when we are open and accepting.
Shruthi Vijayakumar is a coach and mentor who teaches people to be comfortable with the unknown and to listen for wisdom. She helps people simplify their lives by examining their fundamental drivers and parts of their identity. Shruthi encourages leaders to work with, listen to, and be guided by nature.
Her journey towards generative leadership began with Theory U's Four Levels of Listening, and specifically the concept of generative listening. This is a moment when parties are in dialogue and listening from a place that’s not just about oneself.
For Shruthi, generative leadership means being open to working with nature, listening to and being guided by it.
Invitations
- How can you let go of the "I" in your language? What would happen if you practiced this, even for a few sentences?
- What happens when you don't believe everything you think? What space opens up, and what wiser parts of yourself can you listen to?
- What would happen if you let go of the need to fix everything? What would be possible if you trusted that life has your back and allowed it to flow through you? How would this help you create, grow, and evolve?
Links
Transcript
Welcome to Generative Leaders.
Julia:If you have ever wanted to act and listen from wisdom from beyond your own personal mind and really tune into the universe, this is the episode for you.
Shruthi:I was looking at your questions earlier, Julia, and I was like, I don't even know what to say.
Shruthi:They're quite, they're quite big and they're quite vague, you know, like they're so open, like, you can really make this whatever you wanted to mean.
Shruthi:And there's so many dimensions and facets, which I guess is the beauty and the richness.
Shruthi:And also, but like, oh.
Shruthi:What is a generative leader, you know?
Shruthi:But I was, I was just reflecting on the, the words and, um, what I was reminded of first, or where I first went to, was you, you may be familiar with Theory U's four levels of listening.
Shruthi:That's one of my favorite listening frameworks.
Shruthi:So the first level being when you're just sort of download, it's like, Gwen, I'm in a class at university but not really listening cause I don't care.
Shruthi:And I'm just sort of half absorbing the next level being debate or kind of factual listening we're we are kind of seeing in each other's points of view and agreeing or disagreeing.
Shruthi:Third level, being empathic listening where I see situations from your point of view and really feel what you are feeling.
Shruthi:And then they call the fourth level generative listening, which I feel is the hardest to even articulate.
Shruthi:But how I experience that is when we are both in dialogue, and listening from a place that's neither mean or you, but out here in the field, in the space and something new has room to come through.
Shruthi:Because I'm not so stuck to my truth or my view, or I'm not trying to fix you or, I don't know.
Shruthi:There's something in Thisness that comes of, of not being so entangled in me, nor you, but both of us coming out here and holding space for something new.
Shruthi:And so that's kind of, yeah, where my.
Shruthi:My heart and mind.
Shruthi:We're going with your kind of theme of generative leaders and how in our work particularly to care for the land and care for earth and care for people.
Shruthi:Are we leading in a way that allows life to work through us?
Shruthi:Um, are we leading in a way that our attachments and preferences and ideas and desires are honored, but not overpowering us?
Shruthi:You know, not to pretend like we are amongst that can let go of those, those are real daily challenges I face, and yet how do I be in relationship with that in such a way that there's space for, for life to come through and for me to be in service of that regenerating capacity of life.
Julia:that was beautiful, Shruthi.
Julia:A, A stunning expression of, I think everything we all know, but find it hard to put words on.
Shruthi:And we know, and yet we don't.
Shruthi:We don't trust it.
Shruthi:You know, like part of me knows, yes, life is taking care.
Shruthi:Life is inherently self regenerating.
Shruthi:God, source, nature's, the intelligence of the universe.
Shruthi:Whatever word we use, like is carrying us, is holding us.
Shruthi:We're part of that.
Shruthi:And yet how easy it is for the mind, and I'll say my mind.
Shruthi:Sometimes I make it very dis, you know, impersonal and dispassionate.
Shruthi:Like a good spiritual seeker.
Shruthi:No, no.
Shruthi:How easy It's for my thoughts to be very like, convinced, oh, this is good for me and if this goes this way, you'll be great.
Shruthi:And if this doesn't happen, things are gonna be bad.
Shruthi:So you better control and you better ensure your trip goes like this and this goes like this.
Shruthi:And, and I know deep down, but to really live that is another, another adventure, another experience, a moment to moment, um, practice, hey to, um, okay, let go.
Shruthi:Trust.
Shruthi:Okay.
Julia:So like, so I guess the, you know the theme is around is around life.
Julia:Life has got us, and, and we constantly think it doesn't.
Julia:And it's that dance and that interplay between allowing space the aliveness within each of us to actually really be alive.
Julia:trying to control and get in the way of life and interfere with it.
Shruthi:And there's so many like ways that shows up, julia.
Shruthi:I feel like I look at my own life, for example, or career.
Shruthi:One of the funniest moments I look back on is, is me at, Shurthi at 18 who'd been through this kind of largely western education with a lot of eastern Indian values and culture, but, but an education that developed my mind immensely and made me very intellectual and good at analysis and right you know?
Shruthi:And when it came to choosing what to study at university, which apparently I thought to take dictated my whole life, I determine what I could do.
Shruthi:I went through this like rigorous analysis of all the degrees and the pros and cons and, and I was so confused.
Shruthi:I was like, I dunno what to study.
Shruthi:Because there's good reasons why I should not study and be a truck driver and develop empathy for this community.
Shruthi:And there's a good reason why I should do this degree or this degree or this program or Lee and, and I, and I could see or sense then how much a mind driven life was debilitating.
Shruthi:Like, it's paralyzing.
Shruthi:Because it's capable of coming up with any good reason for anything as per its convenience.
Shruthi:I mean, those were kind of early experiences, I think, where I was forced to be like, I can't trust my mind.
Shruthi:And when I started to inquire and go, okay, what, what wisdom might be beyond this?
Shruthi:It was amazing how clue started coming.
Shruthi:I started stumbling upon books or conversations and I felt very guided in a way to study economics, which was not even on my initial pros and cons tables.
Shruthi:So perfect, it was all new path opened up.
Shruthi:And then worked in something and something else, and something else and, and it was amazing to see wow, the options I have are so limited.
Shruthi:The way I have of evaluating the options are so limited, with such few data points.
Shruthi:I was almost scared of my mind.
Shruthi:It's very powerful.
Shruthi:It's so powerful.
Shruthi:But, um, it's just so capable of convincing us that it knows and that it's capable and that it has the answers.
Shruthi:And, and I have this sort of respect for it, but a healthy caution, at the same time.
Julia:We are, we are all born into this human mind.
Julia:And it kind of.
Julia:Doesn't look like we are living in a human mind.
Julia:It looks like our mind is just telling us where to go and what to do.
Julia:And it, you just talked about the, the moment when you sort of woke up to the fact that I don't need to believe everything that I think.
Julia:What do you see?
Julia:About that in relation to, to leadership, to to life?
Shruthi:I think for years, I've lived thinking my thoughts are true.
Shruthi:My thoughts are facts, my thoughts are real, and when I begin to see where these thoughts come from, that shape, how I see the world, how view others, how have you experienced is what I feel excited about, what I feel disappointed about, when I begin to see what's shaping them, okay, the food I eat, what I watch on tv, what I read, what I talk to people about, what I'm consuming through all of my senses.
Shruthi:I eat certain foods and I notice there's a vibrancy and a dynamism and a compassion.
Shruthi:I eat other foods and I notice a heaviness of lethargy and a lack of energy to really listen to someone.
Shruthi:Okay, that's interesting.
Shruthi:And so when we begin, I mean, let alone the experiences and conditionings in society, you look at how capitalism is quietly shaping how I view value and how I value myself.
Shruthi:I mean, there's layers and layers of it.
Shruthi:But when I begin to see that, it's like, wow, okay.
Shruthi:I can kind of unconsciously move through life shaped by, and lead and going to a point on leadership leading my organization based on all these inputs that I'm kind of unconsciously taking in.
Shruthi:Or I can choose to one, be more conscious of what I bring in and also be, feel empowered to go, actually, even if I'm trying to do all the right things and, and taking all the good inputs and, and really be clear and have good space of mind and have good energy, I don't really have to follow what's in there.
Shruthi:I mean, it, it, it works.
Shruthi:The fear, then what do I follow?
Shruthi:What's beyond the mind?
Shruthi:Um, what's there if I'm not the mind, what's, you know, and, and that, that in itself is an exciting exploration into the heart and like consciousness and other forms of knowing, which I think is where the magic lies in leadership.
Shruthi:Because we know, I mean, if the mind is just, and the thoughts are predominantly based on the past and inputs we're taking in, we know what's got us here isn't serving us.
Shruthi:It's the classic Einstein idea of, you know, the thinking that was used to created won't be used to solve the problem.
Shruthi:So clearly there's a need that we can recognize in society that there is a, a different consciousness, a different way of thinking, a different way of understanding that is gonna be essential for leaders today to recreate systems, to reimagine business, to rethink how we grow food, to reimagine, how we educate.
Shruthi:All of the parts of this our society that need to continue being evolved.
Shruthi:And, and if I'm not, therefore if I'm, if I'm cautious about what's coming, yeah, from these inputs, it opens up space to tap into to something different and something more profound, which I feel many of our elders, our indigenous communities, Uh, wisdom traditions have been doing it for generations, it's, it's kind of new, we could say, and it's also very ancient with the kind of approach at, at the same time.
Julia:And do, do you have a sense, Shruthi, of knowing the difference between the past conditioning and wisdom?
Shruthi:I think sometimes Julia, yeah.
Shruthi:And sometimes I think I'm in wisdom and, and then I realize, no, no, no.
Shruthi:That was just ego disguised, fear disguised.
Shruthi:So, so I'd say yes and no.
Shruthi:But I think some of the, the clues for me, for wisdom, it often surprises me.
Shruthi:Yeah.
Shruthi:Sometimes I'll sit quietly and wonder should I do this or this?
Shruthi:And it's, it's option C, so it's often surprising.
Shruthi:it's often quiet.
Shruthi:it comes when I'm willing to, Accept any option.
Shruthi:So sometimes I might have a question, for example, should I take on this new project that someone's reached out to me about?
Shruthi:We want you to come and run this leadership camp for our youth.
Shruthi:Should I do this or not?
Shruthi:And if I'm really not sure and I want to consult the wisdom, if I have a strong preference of, I really want it to be this way, that I'm not able to really access the wisdom.
Shruthi:And for me to be able to, I first need to be able to accept.
Shruthi:Whatever might come up.
Shruthi:And if I'm really ready to listen and, okay, if it's this great and if it's this, I'm, I'm ready to follow, then I'm in a place to really listen to that.
Shruthi:But if my desire for a certain outcome is too strong, I notice, I, I, I'm unable to, or I struggle for, sometimes it slaps me in the face.
Shruthi:Life can be very kind, be like, look, you need to do this.
Shruthi:And, but, um, I had an experience, you know, staying in a job and I was really getting all the signals to leave, to leave, to leave.
Shruthi:And I kept ignoring them and I was convinced I need to stay here and it's the right place to progress.
Shruthi:And then I got asked to leave the job.
Shruthi:So, so life kinda will push me.
Shruthi:Sometimes I feel if I, but I, I mean that's another equality that if I'm really open to accept, then I'm able to listen and, and sense.
Shruthi:And often it's a feeling.
Shruthi:I mean, sometimes it's the mind is quite noisy with its thoughts, but often wisdom for me comes as a, a feeling or a knowing.
Shruthi:That may not be expressed as an elaborate idea with 20 reasons the way the mind will, the mind will get.
Shruthi:Yeah.
Julia:And so for you, what do you see as generative leadership?
Shruthi:I think in the context of, um, you know, leaders running purpose driven organizations or leaders with a vision of a world where nature is thriving, where people is thrive, you know, people are well, a big part of it, I think for me, if we start with the nature piece, is our ability to work with nature and listen to her and be guided by her.
Shruthi:And one of my mentors in, um, in New Zealand, her name is Loizou Mara, beautiful Maori elder.
Shruthi:She recalls how in a meditation one day, She felt Mother Earth speaking to her and say, saying nothing for me without me.
Shruthi:And we had quite a profound, you know, discussion on the environmental movement and how so many of us are sitting behind computers, working on slides, working on proposals, talking to funders, talking to stakeholders, lobbying politicians.
Shruthi:But how much of this work are we really connected with Earth, with our, you know, feet on the ground really listening to?
Shruthi:I mean, and there are different ways that might look like in a.
Shruthi:A very practical way we've, we've tried to bring nature into meeting spaces is by having a seat for her and a cushion and, and, you know, you could invite people to sit on that and really feel and, uh, and invoke mother it's presence and connect her and see what, what does she wanna say?
Shruthi:I mean, there's this kind of fun ways we could do that, but I think, um, and essence, yeah, like not coming from a place of I am here to fix you or fix this, but generative leadership being, I'm here in service, and I'm open for however I need to be used.
Shruthi:However, I can be of service for what wants to come through me, for what my place is, for, what my role is.
Shruthi:And and getting my ideas out of the way such that I can really work with nature, work with people, and be guided to whatever outcome.
Shruthi:I think a key expression of that is rather than having a very clear plan of where I want to get to generative leadership is much more emergent and adaptable and flexible.
Shruthi:And as things are coming, how am I responding?
Shruthi:What's this teaching me?
Shruthi:It's like a moment to moment awareness of, okay, what's true now?
Shruthi:What's coming up now?
Shruthi:What's coming up now?
Shruthi:And it's, it's a, it's a form of leadership that's very present, that's very responsive, that's very connected with others, a group, a team, the earth.
Shruthi:And we are leading from that place of connection, of presence, rather than sitting here intellectually devising my plan and, and trying to execute it forcefully, which is still what I see is so easy to fall back into.
Julia:And so, you know, a lot of, a lot of your work, Shruthi, is, is teaching people about essentially being in the unknown and being comfortable in being in the unknown, and listening for that wisdom.
Julia:And what do you observe as the shifts that happen in people as they start to encounter that process?
Shruthi:one, I'd say common shift I see is like a, a slowing down, uh, minimizing a cleansing of, of one's life and activity.
Shruthi:It's a lot of the people that I'm, I work with or coach often have a lot going on.
Shruthi:Are very passionate to make a difference.
Shruthi:Very motivated, very driven, and I'm very busy rushing, running, doing many projects, very involved.
Shruthi:Often quite exhausted, not always, but can be quite exhausted and quite tired.
Shruthi:Receiving a lot of requests and feeling like they have to respond.
Shruthi:And there's sort of a simplification that I observe as people begin to listen and tune down and slide, do I really need to be doing all of these things?
Shruthi:What's underneath it?
Shruthi:Do I really, um, how much of this is just making me feel important versus how much of this is really my place?
Shruthi:What fears might I hold about following this wisdom?
Shruthi:I mean, the wisdom arises and a whole lot of fears might surface around, but can I afford to do that?
Shruthi:Or what will people think?
Shruthi:What will my Pearse think if I leave this job and make that jump or start that partnership, whatever it might be.
Shruthi:So I think, um, as people are stepping into the unknown, are listening, uh, uh, yeah, there's almost a clearing of a non-essential and, and a remainder of, you know, what, what do I really need?
Shruthi:Um, and there's a, a starting to face some hard questions.
Shruthi:They start to see, yeah, fears and doubts and insecurities that perhaps they were numbing and busy.
Shruthi:They're so busy that I didn't have to deal with all of those feelings and worries and doubts of, and, and there's space to kind of look at them.
Shruthi:There's space to be with them, which can be, you know, quite an extraordinary and, and tough journey to go on.
Shruthi:It's the only, I had a client recently who felt the only reason I was engaged in my work was because I felt guilty for the kind of suffering in the world, and I felt I'm not allowed to be in the place I'm, I'm in and I'm not allowed my privilege.
Shruthi:I have to be of service all the time.
Shruthi:They're getting burnt out.
Shruthi:They go, well, if that's not true, What do I wanna do?
Shruthi:Maybe it's not any social justice work.
Shruthi:Don't wanna be an artist, like do I?
Shruthi:And so it can be quite a, a process of even, yeah, fundamental drivers or parts of our identity begin to be examined and slowly unbuilt.
Shruthi:And I think that can be highly disturbing and quite scary and also super liberating because it's like, what, what is really true?
Shruthi:What is really true for me outside of the stories and conditions and fears that I've.
Shruthi:I've decided to hold on to, for some reason, for so long.
Julia:And we do, don't we, we hold on to those ideas of identity and preference.
Julia:And, what, and what would you, what would you call all of that holding on Tru And, and what do you, what do you see about that?
Shruthi:The word ego is really interesting.
Shruthi:In the west we use it as kind of, I feel predominantly is like arrogance and, and you know, like I'm ego, you know, like I'm very proud.
Shruthi:And, and, um, more eastern philosophies, tic, philosophies, ego really refers to the personality.
Shruthi:This idea of who I think I am.
Shruthi:This notion of, you know, I'm I'm Shurthi.
Shruthi:I'm Indian descent.
Shruthi:I'm a daughter, I'm a sister.
Shruthi:I do this work.
Shruthi:I'm a coach, I'm a facilitator.
Shruthi:I like these things.
Shruthi:I don't like these things.
Shruthi:Prefer these environments.
Shruthi:I like the city, I like nature.
Shruthi:All these ideas of um, prefer if it's sunny, cuz it's lovely when it's warm.
Shruthi:I don't like it when it's rainy and cold.
Shruthi:All sorts of, all sorts of ideas of who I think I am and what I like.
Shruthi:And what's good for me is this kind of, and we call it the ego, but it's a mental construct or an idea of, of who we are or who we think we are.
Shruthi:And this kind of, yeah, worldview or knowledge system really questions.
Shruthi:Is that even real?
Shruthi:Is there even such a personality?
Shruthi:And, and as you said earlier, like when we begin to realize our thoughts aren't true.
Shruthi:Our thoughts aren't facts.
Shruthi:So what are, what are these things?
Shruthi:And if I'm not these things, because they're changing all the time, they're not constant.
Shruthi:I get, if I begin to question any one of them, Am I just that?
Shruthi:Yeah, I could be that, but is that just me?
Shruthi:It all begins to sort of fall apart.
Shruthi:You can even do a bit of a, a self-inquiry.
Shruthi:You know, I, I think I'm this body, but if I didn't have my hand, would I still be me?
Shruthi:If I, if I lost a leg, would I still be me?
Shruthi:If I changed my profession, would I still be me?
Shruthi:If I, if more my relations for some reason passed away, I was no longer a sister or a daughter, or a friend or a partner, would I still be me?
Shruthi:Like, if all of these things were taken away that I think I am, if I lost my hair, if I changed height, whatever, would I still be me?
Shruthi:And, and so what is, what is me then?
Shruthi:What is, what is me or who am I beyond all the ideas I have about what I think I am?
Shruthi:I mean it can sound quite theoretical, but we had one of our kind of teachers and elders invite us for three weeks, a couple of years ago to just speak in third person.
Shruthi:It was such an interesting experiment, Julia.
Shruthi:So instead of saying, I'm hungry.
Shruthi:You would say there is hunger.
Shruthi:I observe there is an observation, there is a feeling of hunger.
Shruthi:There is a feeling of anger arising in the body.
Shruthi:Oh, there is a feeling that now's probably a good time to put a jacket on.
Shruthi:There is a feeling of cold.
Shruthi:And we, we, this group of us for, for three weeks, we're invited to just speak in third person.
Shruthi:I started doing it with my, my reflections as well.
Shruthi:I normally journal in the evening, started journaling in third person today, should, did this.
Shruthi:She felt this, this occurred, this kind of put her off.
Shruthi:She enjoyed learning this.
Shruthi:And um, it was an interesting experience because at the end it was quite challenging.
Shruthi:People around me really were quite patient as I like.
Shruthi:Yeah.
Shruthi:And all the conversations would, would kind of yeah, be speaking in a strange way.
Shruthi:But at the end of it, it was like the clothes became really loose.
Shruthi:Like, it was like the sense of what I think I am, there was so much more space.
Shruthi:Normally this feeling of who I am is quite close and quite tight, but it, it created so much space that there was a quite a clear felt experience of, okay, there are feelings and sensations and thoughts and desires and questions and interactions, and then there is something inside that's aware of that.
Shruthi:There is something that is observing, that there is something beneath that.
Shruthi:There's something that's unfazed by that.
Shruthi:Even with the strongest of emotions that can consume me, I can get really angry or really upset.
Shruthi:There's still something.
Shruthi:Okay, there is anger, but it's not, I'm anger.
Shruthi:I'm not the anger.
Shruthi:Those still, you know, so there's, there's something underneath or beyond, that sound changing, that's deep, that holds us.
Shruthi:And, and for me, one way I kind of make sense of it is going back to the start of our conversation of, yeah, what if we work with life?
Shruthi:What if that is the inherent life essence, life force, godness in all of us, divinity in all of us nature in all of us, um, intelligence in all of us that is unchanging, that isn't phased by seasons and weather and preferences and projects.
Shruthi:And, and what is that about and how does that want to express?
Shruthi:So I think that's a long, a long way of answering your question of, of that thing that I see, what I call all of that in some ways you could say is, is the ego in the sense of this construct of, of who we, of who we think we are.
Julia:I, I I love what you are pointing to, Shruthi cuz, yeah, what you are pointing to is that we have this veil that is, uh, a collection of ideas that we have about ourselves.
Julia:But then there's something that sits behind that, that's universal.
Julia:It's the same for everyone.
Julia:And the more we see our sameness rather than our difference, the more it feels like life is able to live.
Julia:And I love what you were sharing earlier about when you're in that space of listening, From that place and I'd, I'd, I'd love for you to share more about that.
Shruthi:Yeah, it's beautiful what you say Julia that feeling, that sameness.
Shruthi:And I think when we feel that in ourselves and with others, it's profound.
Shruthi:It's love, it's connection, it's joy.
Shruthi:I think it's what we crave for.
Shruthi:And it's so easy when in conflict, for example, to be convinced that you are different.
Shruthi:Um, so I think just that, yeah, as you coined it is, is so beautiful.
Shruthi:In terms of listening, listening from that place, I think it shows that, I think one of the ways I really love experiencing this is.
Shruthi:It's through work.
Shruthi:It's often much easier in, in working context than personal context.
Shruthi:As much as I try and listen from that space, I've got so many expectations when it comes to personal relationships of how someone should be or what's right, you know?
Shruthi:So I find it's, it's, uh, through work is probably one of the easiest ways I find I connect and plug into this place.
Shruthi:If I think about like a single coaching conversation with someone, someone right into the space with something on their mind to discuss.
Shruthi:And as I enter that space, like the first thing I I do is take a few moments together with the person, or it could be with a group if it's a group context, and, and connect to that essence.
Shruthi:Really actively hold an intention, hold a, have a prayer, have a, have a, a real invocation of, of, of that source, remembrance, of that source.
Shruthi:A calling of that source to come through us, to speak through us, to listen through us.
Shruthi:And I love that.
Shruthi:Many of our traditions, indigenous traditions, our religions, our cultures, really emphasize the importance of how you open a space and evoke a space such that we can, we can take a moment to plug back into that.
Shruthi:So, so I think that that for me is a key, a key part of it, I think.
Shruthi:And a second piece is this moment to moment as that conversation is, is unfolding.
Shruthi:To let, to watch if I have any ideas of this is what I think the person needs, this is what I think is going on.
Shruthi:This is what I think is happening into as, as I notice, let them go.
Shruthi:As I notice, let them go.
Shruthi:As I notice, let them go.
Shruthi:And I think in that there's an ability to just be open to what comes through.
Shruthi:I notice what I need for that is a lot of self-confidence, not of trust.
Shruthi:I have to really trust that something is gonna come through, that needs to happen, whatever it is.
Shruthi:And when the, when say I was starting out as a coach, I didn't have that confidence in myself and I, and there was an probably a necessary process to actually learn some skills and tools.
Shruthi:So I don't think in this context, I think one can live in that space all the time.
Shruthi:But if I think in the context of, of doing, uh, a kind of a tangible task, this probably a, a base level of, of self-confidence or trust one needs.
Shruthi:And for me, that came through through learning the approach and, and feeling like I've got the tools.
Shruthi:But I think that for me is probably the key piece.
Shruthi:Like, can I trust that whatever happens needs to happen?
Shruthi:If this person leaves very disappointed and very frustrated by what I say, that's okay.
Shruthi:Something I'm working on Julia is to, is to be more challenging and be more provocative and say things that might serve people but may not be pleasant to hear.
Shruthi:Because there's a part of me in that ego and that self that just wants to be liked by everyone, and that wants everyone to think, oh, you're great.
Shruthi:And, and sometimes what really might be coming through in the best interest of the whole is, is really hard for someone to hear.
Shruthi:And so when I'm connected to that place and, and not serving my own need for, you know, being liked, not driven by my own fear, but really coming from a place of, of trust, I can observe more of what's a rising moment to moment and, and respond to that and, and lean into that and, and give voice to that, from a place of trust and from a place of fearlessness.
Shruthi:And so that's perhaps one example of how it shows up.
Shruthi:I think it, yeah, it could be in a conversation.
Shruthi:It could be in a way where moving through a day,
Shruthi:I mean, a, a very, a very different instance I think of is, I used to be very, I still am, but I was much more planned about how I spent my time because I, I thought if I didn't plan my time and try and optimize it, the things I needed to do wouldn't get done.
Shruthi:And I, I've tried some days, what if I let go of my plan completely have some loose intentions and it's amazing, like sometimes double the amount of things get done without the pressure and the force and the need to control.
Shruthi:And I'm like, wow.
Shruthi:And I don't even feel exhausted trying to like hit the next time there.
Shruthi:I was meant to do this by 10 and that's why, and it's amazing.
Shruthi:And so.
Shruthi:It's that same sense of moment to moment.
Shruthi:Can I listen to the energy?
Shruthi:Can I listen to the wind?
Shruthi:Can I listen to myself?
Shruthi:All right.
Shruthi:What I'm reading at now is a nap.
Shruthi:Okay, let me give myself a nap and listen to my body, rather than the mind kind of overriding with, actually you need to be productive in this way.
Shruthi:And so that listening, I think could be to a person, could be to a space, could be to our body, could be to the elements, could be, yeah.
Shruthi:I feel life, life is speaking to us in, in infinite ways.
Julia:Well, and it, it is so interesting, isn't it, um, Shruthi, that, you know, if you, if you think about young children, you know, when they're learning to ride a bike, they have to trust that you are holding the back of it.
Julia:And then at some point they start finding that feeling of balance.
Julia:And then they don't need to trust anything because they've found it for themselves and they just just know it to be true.
Julia:And so that need to trust sort of falls, falls away.
Julia:But you know when you are.
Julia:Going into the unknown for the first time.
Julia:It's, you know, it can evoke all those fears and it can evoke all those uncertainties and, um, and so it, it, it looks like the right thing to do to trust that there's this greater sense of being held that's guiding you, that's gonna give you the wisdom, that's gonna give you everything that you, that you need.
Julia:But as you start to cultivate that more do, do you find moments where you are not trusting, but it's arising?
Shruthi:Yeah, it's no longer an intellectual thing of I should trust, but it's just a way of being.
Shruthi:Yeah.
Shruthi:I feel it's a gradual process that I feel is growing with time, with days, weeks, years.
Shruthi:And often it's, it's been the most challenging experiences of my life that have cemented it.
Shruthi:I had an experience last year that.
Shruthi:I was so shocked by, and I was so angry at God in the universe.
Shruthi:How could you do this?
Shruthi:How could you allow me to suffer how?
Shruthi:I was just angry at suffering in the whole world.
Shruthi:And I was really, it was a time where that trust was really challenged because things were so not like how my mind wanted them to be.
Shruthi:It was the opposite.
Shruthi:I was just, and I was seeing that more and more and everywhere.
Shruthi:I just couldn't make sense of what I was seeing and experiencing, um, and the kind of suffering I was witnessing.
Shruthi:And it took a, you know, many months of kind of feeling like I had gone back to training wheels in a way, using your analogy, you know, I was writing and I was trusting, and then look what happened.
Shruthi:I fell down.
Shruthi:This was not that of the plan.
Shruthi:I was not meant to fall down, like I'm not meant to hurt you meant to hold me and things will be wonderful.
Shruthi:And so I kind of felt like I was back to training wheels and I was a bit like suspicious.
Shruthi:I wanted to honor that process and I just tell myself that was how I was feeling.
Shruthi:I was kind of honoring what was arising.
Shruthi:And in that process, I feel like the whole bicycle got upgraded.
Shruthi:Like now I'm riding a new bike.
Shruthi:That can go way faster.
Shruthi:But it took a while to really like accept and with time and ripening and maturing.
Shruthi:See, oh, see the learnings and, and have humility and accept things aren't gonna be how I like them.
Shruthi:And this is, this has its own purpose.
Shruthi:And then I won't even understand, I mean, sometimes the mind is kind of, you know, a bit appeased.
Shruthi:If you see, oh, I can see in hindsight how it all made sense.
Shruthi:It was for the highest good.
Shruthi:Sometimes we don't even see that and we don't understand that.
Shruthi:But there was a feeling with time of wow that that experience is as painful, as frustrating, as breaking as it was was profound.
Shruthi:And I feel powerful and I feel more self-reliant and I can see and experience the person I've become as a result of it.
Shruthi:And in that process, I feel the that trust just, like the roots went so much more deeper than they were before.
Julia:I'd say.
Julia:Does, does that give you a different sense of, of purpose, as life works through you?
Shruthi:I feel it's a much like more liberating feeling of purpose than any kind of intellectual definition of purpose We might have.
Shruthi:Often I feel again, as people like very passionate about our work, very invested in our work and our missions, our purpose can feel quite tied to that.
Shruthi:Like I'm here to help the earth find some more balance in this time of chaos or transition these systems that feel like they're failing.
Shruthi:And, and I feel tapping into that life essence sometimes what I need to do is, is just rest or just play with the dog, just water the plant.
Shruthi:Maybe not do anything.
Shruthi:Like, and there's a, a profound satisfaction in that as well.
Shruthi:There's like a satisfaction or a joy in the very simple things without this kind of mind conceived idea of this is more important, this is more valuable.
Shruthi:I could see for years how my notions of what was important were much more what was tangibly helping people in ways that might be measurable and often just sitting quietly just feels, feels right.
Shruthi:And, and it may, I can't measure, like I could say my meditations are putting good vibrations and energy, but it's not even about that.
Shruthi:It's just a sense of others feels, this feels in tune in this moment and and taking a rest or a break from, especially I think in the context of work where a lot of my purpose used to traditionally come from.
Shruthi:Uh, perhaps not working and taking a break for three months and spending time with my grandma's grade.
Shruthi:Well, maybe just, it doesn't, but doesn't even have to be for an outcome.
Shruthi:There's just a sense of, of ease and of kind of harmony.
Shruthi:I feel of I'm, I'm where I need to be.
Shruthi:It's a sense of harmony.
Shruthi:This is, it's not always pleasant, it's not always comfortable.
Shruthi:It's not always easy, but there is a kind of piece or a harmony underneath it, which is profoundly grounding much more than any sense of I feel purposeful or meaningful because I've achieved X, which I can quantify and communicate in a way that I feel we more traditionally might, or I used to definitely feel more, more validation and more satisfaction from.
Julia:Well, this conversation as always, has been so insightful and um, so wonderful and I really do appreciate spending this time with you.
Julia:And I'd love for you to share with people how can they get in touch with you if, if they'd like to, if they'd like to know more about your work, how would they go about doing that?
Shruthi:Yeah, thank you firstly for the, the conversation Julia and all your thoughtful comments and summaries and it's left me with lots of nuggets to find there.
Shruthi:Yeah, I'm more than happy to connect with people.
Shruthi:The easiest thing is, is probably LinkedIn or via email and happy to share, share kind of details with you to, to share with us as well.
Shruthi:And um, yeah, really.
Shruthi:Yeah, wish well, all those listening and their own journeys, um, as they move forward with more, with more intuition and more harmony, and more trust in these, in these times.
Julia:I was so touched by so many things that Shruthi mentioned in that 30 minute conversation that we had.
Julia:But I think the three things that have really stayed with me are one, how can we all let go of the I?
Julia:Could you run this experiment that Shruthi spoke of in terms of practicing what does it mean to not say I?
Julia:I have this, I have that, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.
Julia:What would it be like to practice that, even for a few sentences and just to see what happens?
Julia:The second that has really stayed with me is, is how much we don't have to believe everything that we think and what happens when we do?
Julia:What space opens up?
Julia:What are we able to listen to in our own selves that's quieter, gentler, and much more wise?
Julia:The third thing that really stayed with me was letting go of all of the fixing.
Julia:Fixing other people, fixing things, making things happen.
Julia:What would happen if we let go of that and we are really allowed and trusted that life has our back and it flows through us?
Julia:It wants to create, it wants to grow, it wants to show us how to evolve.
Julia:What would be possible, what would be generated from that space?
Julia:If there's been something in this conversation that has really touched you and you think it would be helpful to others, please go ahead and share.
Julia:You can do that at generativeleaders.co.
