Episode 25
Holding a space for generative thinking
Understanding different thinking styles can make teamwork smoother and facilitate powerful change. Generative listening means creating environments that encourage independent thought and respect individuals’ perspectives. This means holding a space where each individual's unique thinking process is acknowledged and valued.
Servane Mouazan is a 'thinking partner' for people who are interested in investing in social and environmental change. Her work revolves around listening to and collaborating with people who are working to make the world a better place.
From this discussion, you’ll learn how generative thinking can improve teamwork and facilitate powerful change, understand the importance of acknowledging and respecting individual perspectives in a group setting, and discover how our environment and mindset can influence how we think.
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Transcript
Being able to think clearly and bring out others clear thinking is not something that is generally paid attention to in any kind of business.
Julia:However, my guest this week has been spending her time helping social and environmental leaders to reflect on the art environment that helps them do their best thinking to solve the world's most complex issues.
Julia:Not an easy task.
Julia:I'm Julia Rebholz, welcome to Generative Leaders.
Servane:Where shall I start?
Servane:Well, I'm French, I'm British.
Servane:Won't make it simple.
Servane:I'm a thinking partner for people who love to invest in social and environmental change.
Servane:And by investing I mean, well, people have got funds, but people also have ideas, resources, and attention.
Servane:I'm a thinking partner for these people.
Servane:That's what my job is about.
Servane:That what?
Servane:That's why I am getting up in the morning.
Servane:Nothing else interests me and the goodness of being a thinking partner is that everything interests me.
Servane:So just to summarize, yeah, I've been in the UK for 20 years and I've been spending time before.
Servane:Before I was living in the Netherlands, I spent some time in Brazil and I worked in different countries, Middle East, Maghreb.
Servane:So I've been traveling around, working around and listening to lots of different wonderful, brilliant people who make the word a better place.
Julia:So we, I'm using this term generative leaders.
Julia:What, what does it mean to you?
Servane:Well it's so funny because I used that a lot in, in, in the work I do and also, um, um, um, following approach, which is the thinking environment, which is an approach that it's all about generating new thinking, independent thinking.
Servane:And so.
Servane:I went back to the etymology dictionary.
Servane:That's one I one thing I love doing.
Servane:Some people, you know, love hiking, running marathon.
Servane:I just love etymology.
Servane:So I went back to my etymology dis, uh, dictionary and generative is, um, we all know that something around, you know, giving birth to and, uh, creating that sort of things.
Servane:And I found that it has the same root as genuine, gentle, and gene.
Servane:Can you believe that?
Servane:So generative is all this stuff.
Servane:It's um, things that make a move forward, but maybe with care, um, and attention and empathy.
Servane:It's not something you do with just looking at your feet, although you might have beautiful feet, but it doesn't really help you move forward just looking at your feet.
Servane:You're gonna have to lift them.
Servane:You're gonna have to look where you're going.
Servane:You're gonna have to, you know, put some muscles in.
Servane:So that kind of metaphor really intrigues me.
Servane:And when we talk about generative thinking, well it's pausing for a moment and looking at the attention we have for where someone's thoughts are going and what might be stopping them.
Servane:So assumptions, ideas, templates that they have buried deeply inside that might be stopping them from moving forward, from generating stuff.
Servane:Or new philosophies or ideas or actions.
Servane:Collaborative actions.
Julia:I love how you put your attention on the attention that you give.
Julia:That was really present in, in what you, what you said, and, and how you, how one can give attention to a multitude of different things that can be either within them or outside of them, or in, in any direction.
Julia:Attention can go in any, in any direction.
Servane:Do you know the expression, um, paying attention in in English?
Servane:Well, I would, I think should be generative the attention um, might be better used if you give it rather than if you pay it.
Servane:And it feels, it feels like this.
Servane:This expression gives us a sort of little clues by paying something and maybe you expect something in return.
Servane:And so when you pay attention, maybe you have an idea, you have an agenda.
Servane:You have different thoughts, different thoughts, different internal noises, and when you pay attention there some sort of interruptions happening here and there and around you that, at the end makes you not really give attention.
Servane:Whereas the giving attention is something that you, there's, there's generous, well generous, generative.
Servane:It probably is the same root.
Servane:Where there's the notion where you, you know, you give curiosity.
Servane:You are, uh, with the person who's thinking, and you don't expect anything in return.
Servane:In fact, it doesn't matter.
Servane:Wherever it goes, it goes.
Servane:It's what's most important is wherever the other is going,
Servane:Maybe when you're doing that for yourself, when you think generatively for yourself, is that really allowing these noises to dim these internal noises.
Servane:To dim these external interruptions to dim and give respect to yourself for the thinker you are.
Julia:Uh, it, it is so funny 'cause as you were talking I was, my mind was creating this very wide open space.
Julia:And it was almost like, you know, being walking through the mountains and the choice to look at the path and be focused on the path or to look up and take in the, the surroundings, and what a different experience that creates.
Servane:It's a lot to take in as well.
Servane:I love the of the mountain here because there's so much to take in.
Servane:So many cues, so many connections possible.
Servane:It, there's nothing wrong with these connections as long as you let them emerge, right?
Servane:How long as you let them come, let them be, but you have to have the space to let them come for you.
Servane:Now, what happens in, in, in real life, not that going on a mountain is not real life, but I guess what happens when you are in a meeting room or in a, you know, investment committee or that sort of things?
Servane:Like how can we let these generative thinking happen without having someone take all the floor, you know, all the space or, and, and, and distressing others 'cause they can't bring their peace.
Servane:I don't find peace because they can't bring their peace.
Servane:I'm not sure if I pronounce it well, but that's how it, that's what's happening.
Servane:So how do you do that generative thinking when you are in a, some more formal setting?
Servane:There, there, there are, there will be, um, multitudes of ideas in people's heads.
Servane:There's gonna be a lot of, uh, thoughts, connections, resistance, challenging happening in everyone's head at any time.
Servane:Most of it won't even come to the surface, but that's gonna be an internal noise and a noise in the room that we have to take into account when we, when we meet, when we gather.
Servane:And I think being conscious that all this is happening while just one person is speaking is something quite fundamental and could be scary at times.
Servane:Because how do we know that we are so present that we are in service of the purpose of the meeting.
Servane:So I think it's, um, it, it requires some pausing.
Servane:How do we think together?
Servane:How do we treat each other well?
Servane:When we are together, when we think together?
Servane:And how is it going to help our actions, our purpose, our exploration, our decisions?
Julia:I love what you just said, Servane, and, and you said such a fundamental thing.
Julia:It's so obvious yet people are so unaware of it.
Julia:That we are sitting around a, a table and we are all thinking.
Julia:And whether you know it or not, somebody else next to you is thinking and they're very likely thinking something completely different from you.
Julia:And so we have this notion of, uh, reality being an objective thing when precisely it's not.
Julia:because we're all, we're all thinkers.
Julia:And to know oneself as a thinker and know others as a thinker is a shift in energy and consciousness, in that a, a attention.
Julia:And I just wanted to draw light to that being a truth.
Julia:You know, it's not a, it's, it's not a.
Julia:Thing that happens sometimes.
Julia:It's happening all the time.
Servane:Oh, it's so true.
Servane:It's so true.
Servane:There's, there's a quiz i, I give sometimes to people that I'm, I give course to or, or, or I, I work with, and it's just a funny quiz.
Servane:You know, how many words we speak?
Julia:No.
Julia:Tell me.
Servane:Something around 120, and some people are very good at it.
Servane:They can speak so fast, they can do it even maybe more, but speak a hundred words.
Servane:One 20 words per minute.
Servane:Do you know how many thoughts you have per minute, roughly.
Julia:Well, I know, you have 30,000 give or take a day, so it's a lot more.
Servane:So we have, and studies vary, but roughly 900 thoughts a minute.
Servane:And I'm sure we can find more.
Servane:So when you think that you have a ratio of like maybe 120 words, uh, spoken in a minute and 900 thought a minute, I can't do the ratio of of the cuff like that, but it's a lot.
Servane:So what happens is when, when someone speak and you are there around the table, you are making decision and a really, really big decision.
Servane:When someone speak your mind as a listener, you're gonna fill in the blanks.
Servane:Because you've got lots of thoughts happening at the same times and that speaker in front of you isn't really quick or is not as quick as you when you think.
Servane:So you are going to think about the spinach you might have in between your teeth or what you're gonna cook tonight, or you know, maybe the other dress or trousers you could put to be more comfortable, or the other meeting you're gonna later on, these thoughts always try to creep in.
Servane:And this is the challenge when you want to be a truly generative listener, is to dim all these internal noises and be fully giving attention to, uh, the thinker in front of you.
Servane:And that is a sport.
Servane:That is a real sport.
Servane:When you do that, the person in front of you will feel so graced by your attention that their own thinking and thereby after that, maybe their own speaking will be enhanced, enriched.
Julia:And it, it is so funny, isn't it?
Julia:Because these 900 thoughts.
Julia:You can't control them.
Julia:They just show up.
Julia:The question is not, can you stop them from showing up?
Julia:It's can you stop yourself from giving them attention?
Servane:Yes.
Servane:You can.
Servane:Maybe stopping is a big word because you, you don't only when are they thinking?
Servane:You know, Julia is, uh, it, it's just generic term for feeling, reacting, uh, having responses.
Servane:There is a lot of emotions coming up.
Servane:So that term thinking technically s all of these responses, right?
Servane:We, in the thinking environment, we talk about three streams of attention.
Servane:So you, you give attention to the thinker in front of you.
Servane:So what they, uh, say, but also their body response.
Servane:Their body language.
Servane:No verbal nonverbal cues.
Servane:You noticing things that happen within you, your own stream of thoughts and all the response that you have in reaction to the words you're hearing, you're listening.
Servane:And there is the environment in which you are, you know, that environment.
Servane:Um, the, the dodgy chair in which you're, you're sitting or.
Servane:The lovely flowers next to you, but that scent is really hard to take in.
Servane:All of these are cues as well.
Servane:There are parts of that, that complex system that makes, that helps or hinders thinking.
Servane:So being aware, even if you can't stop everything, being aware of these things and managing them when you give attention is what's going to enhance the thinking.
Julia:And it doesn't look that way, does it?
Julia:To most people, it doesn't look that way.
Julia:It looks like.
Julia:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Julia:I, I really, you know, I really do need to move my foot right now because the chair is not in the right position.
Julia:And, and it doesn't look like a choice of.
Julia:well, it's an option.
Julia:when you're fully absorbed in the conversation that others are having, doesn't even come to into your awareness.
Servane:It doesn't.
Servane:There is a component that we use, which component of place.
Servane:So what is it?
Servane:And, and there are 10 components in, in total, in a thinking environment that findings show are, really making thinking, um, happen, you know, independent thinking take place.
Servane:And, and place is one of them.
Servane:And by place is about, uh, the environment.
Servane:Visuals, not visual cues that tell you you matter.
Servane:So what that means is when you are even having a.
Servane:podcast like this, you are welcome me in, in, in, in your environment to make sure that I feel at ease with this technical environment.
Servane:If we meet in an investment committee, you make sure in advance that people are going to sit comfortably because they already have a lot of papers to read or skim through.
Servane:And, uh, and they're gonna be in there for a long time so you make sure that they've got enough refreshments and that the.
Servane:Place is ventilated properly.
Servane:These are little things that will make thinking happen much in a much better way.
Servane:And when you notice that, when you've taken the habit of doing that, then people feel more ease.
Servane:And ease is another component of the thinking environment.
Servane:When you feel more ease, then your thinking rolls better.
Julia:No, it's so, it's so funny, isn't it?
Julia:Um, Servane, 'cause it's like all of these things can help, but they're not foolproof.
Julia:I find it fascinating, this dance between trying to manage the outside world, and It's a paradox because you're trying to manage the outside world, but you're also remembering that everybody is creating their experience from their own thinking.
Julia:So it is this dance between trying to help the external environment, but you know, the truth is everyone is creating their experience from the inside out, from their own thinking.
Julia:And so, if you don't know that somebody has a trigger for the color red And you put red on a slide to indicate that this is a, uh, something that's failing in the business, some people may have been programmed to go, okay, that's something to pay attention to.
Julia:You know, this red color.
Julia:But one individual goes, you know, at the red.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:Yes, exactly.
Servane:And that's such a good example.
Servane:That's another component which I can reveal to you now, a component of difference.
Servane:So you will not know.
Servane:all there all the differences between people, but you will just, by just, um, uh, acknowledging that people are all different and they come with visible differences or invisible differences, be ready because anything might, might come up at any time.
Servane:So you don't necessarily have to stress about that because you can hear some people thinking oh my God.
Servane:There's a lot to take in and we just want to have a little brainstorming session.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:What, what do we have to think about all these things before?
Servane:Well, yes and no.
Servane:It can happen in a nanosecond.
Servane:I'm, as I'm assuming not all the people around the room are different.
Servane:We'll have different expectations that mean I need to expect different responses.
Servane:I can't assume that my way of thinking is the universal way, and by acknowledging difference, I will, I will make this place a bit more welcoming, more inclusive.
Servane:I create more bond, maybe more trust as we go, um, and I create more ease.
Servane:And maybe just a simple way to start that meeting might be when you do introduction rounds very briefly.
Servane:One of the question could be what would you like to share that in sharing it would make you feel at ease today?
Julia:well, I love, I love two things that you shared there, Servane.
Julia:One was the acceptance of difference because you first have to accept that everybody's thinking will be different.
Julia:And in business, most of the time we go into a meeting with the idea that we have to get everybody to think the same.
Julia:So we are starting from a false premise of everybody's gonna think the same or we have to reach consensus or everybody, or it's not okay to disagree.
Julia:Disagreement is a bad thing.
Julia:Whereas if we're walking to a meeting thinking, actually, let's accept everyone will have a different opinion, let's accept that everybody will think differently, let's accept that that will happen, then that creates a container And a space for that difference to emerge.
Julia:And in doing so, taking in all those different perspectives to get to something better than someone would've on their own.
Julia:And I, I dunno about use of Servane, but you know, so many times, you know, I see people walk in and they're like This is the answer, this is where we need to get to.
Julia:This is what needs to happen.
Julia:Um, and those, that real attachment to that being the answer prevents any hearing of any of any other ideas.
Servane:The environment that you've described when you know of accept one of acceptance and assumption that everybody will come with different nuance and et cetera, background lived experience by accepting that you are giving encouragement for people to come up as different and encouragement is yet again another component of the thinking environment.
Servane:And then by giving that encouragement, people might feel more at ease.
Servane:And ease is another component.
Julia:So talk a little bit about ease and, and what you've, what you've seen around that.
Servane:I think it's, um, the ease of what I've seen in, in people who work in, for instance, social finance or, or even social entrepreneurship.
Servane:I spent decades supporting essentially women in social enterprises and, and then after more people who finance them, I think remembering what the purpose, their purpose was was always the key essential element.
Servane:Really remembering what on earth, why on earth am I doing this?
Servane:What's the point?
Servane:And if it's small or big, or earth changing or future focus, whatever, it doesn't matter.
Servane:As long as you are, you are able to articulate why, why you are getting up in the morning.
Servane:Because having that reminds you why you interact with certain people, why you have boundaries and in term, in terms of conflict, you are rem, you remind yourself why, why you here, why you're in that place, you know?
Servane:And it, it, helps you find common points with other people as well.
Servane:Because a lot of people share the same purpose of, you know?
Servane:Having clean air, for instance, or, or having dignity or caring for people.
Servane:That kind of universal statements, right?
Servane:You know, your North stars.
Servane:So always remembering that and that is a seed, one of the seeds for ease I found, that you can use, in, you know, bad days or good days.
Julia:I'll pick up on the, on the, on the good or bad days.
Julia:'cause I think it's such a societal kind of norm for us to say, oh, you know, I've had, I've had a really bad day, or, you know.
Julia:I've had a really.
Julia:good day.
Julia:And uh, I my husband and I were having this conversation the other day and, and I was thinking about my day and there had, been three or four quite tricky issues to work through.
Julia:And, uh, they were quite draining of energy.
Julia:quite quite tricky.
Julia:And so we, we went out for a walk and I said, oh, you know, I've had these four really tricky things today.
Julia:you know, dah, dah, dah, dah.
Julia:And then my mind went to, yeah but then there's been all these really lovely light parts of the day,
Julia:And it was such a moment for me because 10 years ago, my life would've been consumed by those four negative moments.
Julia:And actually in my day there was 60 mo, you know, let's say 60 moments, probably there were, you know, more than 60 moments, but there were, you know, let's say there were 60 moments, and four of them were tricky.
Julia:The rest of them were pretty great.
Julia:I was reading somewhere that, you know, the secret to life's Happiness is not the amount of positive thinking you have, it's the attention you give to the negative.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:The attention.
Servane:The attention of your feelings, your emotions, whatever comes up.
Servane:When you release these emotions and these feelings, they, you engage better thinking, more thinking, and more independent thinking.
Servane:I love that.
Servane:Um, that acceptance, the feeling of acceptance here.
Servane:I think in the, in the world we work in Julia, the, there's um, something you noticed about people being able to hold complex emotions together.
Servane:And in these complex emotions, you can go through a day holding at the same times, for instance, the feeling of rage and anger and hope and love at the same time, you know?
Servane:When you are, when you, you have a cause you work for, uh, you know, you defend or things like that, or you invest in.
Servane:Not the commercial bits, but the, you know, the impact bit or the social environmental, environmental bit.
Servane:The non extractive finance, for instance, or, or actions.
Servane:And you, your heart is full of rage and anger and your, and, and, but your heart is also full of, of, of love and compassion and hope and, and holding these emotions and acknowledging them and seeing them accepting them for what they are, these the big paradox, eh?
Servane:I think, I think that's so powerful.
Servane:a way of being.
Servane:As opposed to dividing them, seeing the world as a binary thing.
Servane:Oh, today I'm gonna be hopeful.
Servane:Today, tomorrow I'll be angry.
Servane:I think it's possible to have all these emotions together.
Servane:You have to acknowledge them because they are, they're making who you are, they're making the unique person that drive you.
Julia:Yeah, I think, I think for me that, um, what I, what I've seen for myself is that, like a piano has kind of high notes and low notes and middle notes, you know, all are required for the song to be beautiful.
Julia:so naming my emotions as good and bad is something that I have really focused on not doing.
Julia:You know, it is like, well, this this is anger, and anger is giving me some information.
Julia:And um, being open to that information, rather than saying, I feel bad.
Julia:Because it's it's, like, by the anger is bad, it is like I get more attached to the badness, when actually it's just my subconscious thoughts that I'm not aware of are Sitting behind that and I'm just, uh, really attached to those thoughts..
Julia:and, uh, you know, when there's that space to, to see that.
Julia:And it's not always in the moment.
Servane:Requires, um, a thinking
Julia:It just requires some space and some, you know, settling down and, you know, and that ease, that ease of being with that emotion.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:I've, I've just heard something very generative here.
Servane:There is, you give two, I heard you saying, giving two examples.
Servane:If in my sentence I say anger is bad there, there's a judgment.
Servane:And this is gonna be an interruption to thinking.
Servane:When you level your anger and accepting, well, oh hey, there is anger in the space as a secondary emotion, you know, it will come after something like fear or, or, um, feeling powerlessness, that kind of stuff.
Servane:But it is an information, as you rightfully said, an information when it's just on top, on point, on topic, succinct and and specific, is a component for generative thinking too.
Servane:In fact, that's one of the 10 components.
Servane:You hear me saying?
Servane:You're having peeping noises every, every time.
Servane:I hear you.
Servane:Just coming up with one of the components.
Servane:'cause all, when they're all put together, then they really make you think generatively and by extension.
Servane:When, uh, on the playground as a child or, you know, the head of a big company or, um, running a crew of, of people who, who, who, you know, collect waste, um, carers.
Servane:Every, every lead generatively in whichever situation, whichever situation, you can lead generatively when they're given that that brilliant opportunity to pause even for a nanosecond and use these components when they are, when they embody them, being these components.
Julia:Ah, and breathe.
Servane:Oh Yeah, that too.
Servane:It's not as 10 components, but uh, I think breathing should be the 11th, yeah.
Servane:Don't forget to breath, I think sometimes I've got this.
Servane:You know, you feel your shoulders next to your ears and then, and then you, you drug them, and say, wow, I was a walking all day with my shoulders next to my ears?
Servane:There's this bit of stress there.
Servane:It's probably one of the interruptions, uh, that, that we have, that stopped us from from thinking well.
Julia:Yeah.
Julia:And we as human beings can put all kinds of labels on, on, on these things.
Julia:And, um, people know when they are in a meeting that feels good.
Julia:They feel like, oh, that was really great.
Julia:You know, we, we had a good dialogue and we felt really in flow and we felt really connected and it just felt really good.
Julia:And then people know when there's, you know, it's like, oh, we didn't get anywhere and.
Julia:It was tricky and wading through mud and, and having this deeper level of understanding about what's happening in them and what's happening in in others is, is helpful to be able to discern that difference.
Servane:You gotta make a space for it though.
Servane:There's something interesting I wanna pick up on that.
Servane:Sometimes we have the, the, the feeling that it flows.
Servane:Because maybe our ideas converge, but we might not have unearthed all the assumptions that we've had and sometimes, so you might think, why isn't that a bit cruel to just go and dig for more mud when we think it's all in flow?
Servane:But I just, sometimes it's just worth, are we really limiting our thinking here?
Servane:Is it's feels too good to be true?
Servane:Why are we in consensus?
Servane:What's going on, really?
Servane:And if there were more to think about what, what more would come up?
Servane:You know, what, what, what more would you feel?
Servane:What more would you like to say?
Servane:So when everybody agrees, sometimes I'm like, Hmm, I'd like to dig further.
Servane:And I'm probably the annoying.
Servane:Kid in the class when I do that Yes, but.
Servane:So I don't want to push away the people who are, who may come up as naysayers or say yeah, the yes but people, because they may have concerns sometimes that, well, it's good to hear.
Servane:So welcome somehow, well, I think it's great sometimes to, to fish for opportunities where, and have people have a say.
Servane:Well, in other circumstances they wouldn't have said it because they're shy, because they're tired, because they just wanna move on.
Servane:And I think, um, having the opportunity around the table sometimes in corporate meeting or what have you, or community group meeting to say What are we assuming that is limiting our thinking here?
Servane:Whereas we think everything is pink and rosy and all goes well, are we limiting our thinking?
Servane:Fishing for problems.
Julia:Or seeing the limitless possibility and endless generative solutions
Servane:So that happens if you surface all the assumptions, you say, which assumptions are true?
Servane:What makes us feel they're true?
Servane:And if they're not true, what is generative and liberating instead.
Servane:And then you have assumptions that are true and that you can work with.
Servane:And then you can, you know, expand and have options and possibilities, um, and, and in new scenarios.
Servane:So as some assumptions are true, some assumptions are not true.
Servane:Describe assumptions are, you know, like templates that, that we use.
Servane:Sometimes the, the brain use assumptions are templates so that it has, it spends less energy, uh, making decisions.
Servane:So, for instance, an assumption that we have a very current one is, um, the fire is hot.
Servane:I, uh, if I'm assuming that if I put my hand in, in fire, it's gonna burn, it's gonna hurt.
Servane:So my conclusion is that I shouldn't put my hand in the fire.
Servane:So the brain has got that template well embedded, well secure, deep down, so that you don't even think of it when you pass next to the fireplace.
Servane:Nah, I'm not putting my hands in it, you don't even think of it, nanosecond, your decision is made.
Servane:But there are other assumptions that are not as obvious, and sometimes, um, it's worth surfacing them and seeing is it actually true?
Servane:Is it really true what we think when we surface these assumptions?
Servane:And then sometimes you realize that, well, they're not true.
Servane:And all this time has prevented you from taking a risk or making a certain decision or collaborating with certain people because you assume stuff, and that assumption was deep, deeply buried, and it never came up in the surface.
Servane:Now surfacing these assumptions, seeing which one are true, not true, what's the, what's the true liberating option or results?
Servane:Then it helps you then to generate new possibilities indeed.
Servane:So it's worth having a sort of lip, you know, putting the hand in the muddy monkey parts.
Julia:Well, and then there's a willingness to put your hand in your own mucky parts.
Julia:and in, in others mucky parts too.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:And when we do meetings with, with people, we facilitate meeting, you say old people, we are gonna have to go deep into the assumptions of be ready.
Servane:We're gonna have a few rounds where we are really gonna look at the assumptions in the face.
Servane:So it's contracted, contractually agreed that we are gonna do that I mean, I wouldn't just, you, know, jump on people say Oy, what are you assuming here?
Servane:No, you got to take, you know, formal manners.
Servane:But I think there's a possibility.
Servane:Yeah.
Servane:Um, I'm someone who hate small talk, so, um, I kind of announce it quite early on in the process, say, we're gonna go deep, babe.
Julia:Well, and on that note, Servane, if people wanna go deep with you, how can they find out more about you, your work, and get in touch?
Servane:Oh, that's lovely.
Servane:Where I literally live on LinkedIn.
Servane:I've got a house there so people can, uh, just search me up.
Servane:Servane Mouazan on LinkedIn.
Servane:I also have a website, uh, servanemouazan.co.uk, but there's a lot of blogs and provocations and also lots of events and jobs and opportunities for people as well in the sector.
Servane:Want to, to invest in social environmental change and do more of that.
Servane:And I've got a podcast.
Servane:There you go.
Servane:When we think, uh, about, you know, how you show up and how you explore, how you do your work.
Servane:What's in the way?
Servane:Um, all the assumption, all these mental models that we use and that can help do more of good work.
Servane:So it's called Be and Think in the House of Trust.
Servane:And I'm sorry, it's the podcast with the longest title in podcast history.
Servane:But it's fun.
Servane:A podcast.
Servane:I don't talk much at all.
Servane:So
Julia:Oh, wonderful.
Julia:Well thank you so much for the conversation.
Julia:It's been incredibly generative and um, I appreciate you very much.
Servane:thank you thank you, for listening, and thank you for generating ideas and feedback too.
Julia:What a wonderful exploration with Servane.
Julia:I loved her energy, curiosity, fun, and inspiration.
Julia:The three things that really stayed with me since our conversation are what of the thinking environments that she shared with us resonated the most?
Julia:And.
Julia:How could you create environments where the level of thinking could be better?
Julia:It's really got me reflecting over the last few weeks about when people have a lot on their minds, when they're going from meeting to meeting.
Julia:Do we really take the time to tune in and help everyone be present at the meeting that we're in do we help them to let go of everything that they brought before the meeting?
Julia:My last question to you as listeners is what would you be curious about in creating better thinking environments and what would that enable in your business life, world parenting, whatever situation that you're in?
Julia:If you found this conversation useful and you think someone else would too, go ahead and share it.
Julia:You can do that at generativeleaders.co or on any podcast platform that you listen to.
Julia:I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of Generative Leaders.
